Transition From Finance to Artistry

Speaker 3 0:19

Thank you , we'll share real stories of our own , as well as guests who have found harmony in their lives by aligning their money with their personal goals , and we'll teach you how you can do the same we're excited to have you here , so let's get started welcome back everyone to the for the wealth of it podcast .

Speaker 2 0:35

Today we have an exciting guest here . We have josh passler from finart . Josh is a good friend of mine . He actually designed the logo that we have for our podcast . He did my firm branding . Josh actually has a pretty exciting story because he actually came from the finance industry and now he's pursuing his passion and creating art for a bunch of different companies and financial planners in the industry . Without further ado , I'd like to introduce Josh . Josh , welcome to the podcast .

Speaker 2 1:11

Hey , everyone Thanks for having me here , excited to finally be on the podcast and talk to the three of you . Yeah , josh , today we just want to get in and dig a little bit deeper into your story . I think it's pretty unique that you have someone that came from within the industry and then broke out and is now actually serving financial advisors and planners . Maybe we'll start just kind of where you started out in the industry and how you kind of carve your career path from financial advisor to artist .

Speaker 4 1:36

Yeah , great question . I mean , you're in Omaha , so obviously I had to start at TD Ameritrade , right , that's where I learned everything . And then I got after four years I went to TIAA literally down the street from TD Ameritrade , just stayed within like the T's , just moved down like a mile , and I was with them for about four years and I got to learn a lot about myself , retirement planning , and I felt like there was a lot missing when you're strictly just focusing on college 401As , 403b plans , and I really wanted to be more holistic . So the way FinArt started was simply me trying to find more holistic planning services , trying to find more holistic planning services , and I found fintwit throughout that search and I kind of like jumped into a rabbit hole and I realized that's the route that I want to take . Um , even though that's the route that I want to take , life , you know , kind of put me on a different path , like within like the next two months of me searching for , for that new I guess you can say uh , advisor career , uh , advisor career .

Speaker 2 2:49

Did you have a background in art ? Did you go to school for a minor or anything in in in art , or was that just something that you kind of found along along the way is just kind of a passion .

Speaker 4 3:02

Yeah , yeah , I did not go to school for art . I considered it in high school , didn't think I was really that great when it came to different disciplinary art styles . I just loved sketching from anything from real people to animals to even anime . I'm half Japanese , so I do like anime . But no , I always grew up drawing .

Speaker 4 3:27

It was just a hobby of mine , a passion of mine , one of those hobbies that you can just get lost in . You can get into that flow state and time just disappears , right ? It wasn't until I was wanting to communicate my products and services let's say better to my clients that I realized the two kind of tie in together . And when I wanted to get my name out to other fee-only planners or even advice-only planners I wanted to add more value to my name . I realized that just talking to them through Twitter was not doing much . I wasn't tweeting out , you know , advice or not advice , but you know , just invested in education 101 , kind of like what Thomas Goldman is doing very well .

Speaker 4 4:15

So I realized , you know , I could draw , I can make art , I can make things visually appealing . So I started doing that and it kind of it started to gain more traction early on and I realized that's where my value is Like , that's where I can add as whether it's a marketing assistant or it's like a financial planner , slash marketing assistant and go from there . That was like that was pretty much what my plan was . That was my strategy . I realized that the small portion what my plan was , that was my strategy . I didn't realize that the small portion of where I was adding value is eventually going to become 100 of my job and a new career was it um explaining concepts and investment concepts and stuff like that , or is it just like your own marketing and branding ?

Speaker 4 5:03

So the very first was art , I guess it was more . I'm trying to remember what I did . Oh , it was actually a business card . First that I actually created the firm I was with . They had a private office , a DBA . I absolutely hated their business cards and so I just redesigned them . I never designed a business card before , but I did my research and I was like , oh you know , I , I started , I I used canva first , right , that was like my , my medium , so I was using canvas to to make everything at first , um , and then it became like magnet , you know little , like flyers for your magnet right .

Speaker 4 5:45

Then it was product and services page , just little little things like that . And then I started to , I guess , kind of sketch out financial concepts , not necessarily like Carl Richards style , but it was similar style for my clients , just to make things a lot easier to understand . I actually found Carl Richards sketch stuff around that time too , but to get more value in the FinTwit world , it was literally just sketches , I mean like cartoon , comic-style sketches that I was making I would listen to . I listened to a podcast , I think it was . I'm pretty sure this is like over two years ago , but I'm pretty sure it was the only podcast by Brock and , oh my God , peter . Oh my God , brock and Peter . Sorry , brock and Peter , if you're listening , but they were talking . He was talking about insurance agents and how , if an insurance agent starts to sell you a product and they mention like this is like a , like a Roth IRA on steroids or like a supercharged Roth IRA they're if they're trying to explain an insurance product like that , then you should probably leave the room . And I thought that was the funniest thing and I was like he's absolutely right .

Speaker 4 7:00

So I decided to make a cartoon sketch on my ipad using the procreate app and it's a buffed out person , like just roided out . You can easily tell . And he's like it's like a roth ira that's on steroids , and you can tell that this guy's on steroids and the person he's speaking to is a wendy's cashier . And the wendy's cashier says sir , this is a Wendy's . And I thought it's so true because it seems like everything on TikTok nowadays , you see , like these IUL , perm , life Insurance ages , they're just trying to pitch out everything . You have the MPI guy pitching out to everybody yes , you know .

Speaker 4 7:37

And so I was like this works , and so I was doing that for a little bit and then I started to make portraits of people and I realized , like the portrait thing just took off , like everybody wanted to change to their profile photos . So if you saw on Twitter or LinkedIn like an image of them with a bunch of colors in the background , that was my art that I made for them , and I realized pretty quickly that that was going to be just like a seasonal thing . It lasted lasted like three , four months , and then that's when I made the change , or more of like a pivot , to start creating financial or illustrations of financial concepts . That's when I realized , okay , like if I want to turn this into an actual business , I need something that's going to be relevant for the whole year , and obviously that would do the job . So I started making that and that eventually led to branding about , let's say , maybe like four or five months after that .

Speaker 2 8:32

Nice , I want to just jump in real quick . You mentioned that cartoon skit . The last Uber ride . The guy tried to sell me an index universal life policy . No way , that's crazy . That Wendy's scenario Did he get you , did you , did you buy in . I let him give his pitch . At the end I was like , oh , actually I was in the industry , I used to sell insurance products , but um , oh my god , I kind of wanted to hear his pitch , yeah wow , that's a new one , tactical it was definitely part of one of those pyramid um companies , multi-level marketing type firms by america .

Speaker 2 9:09

I can't remember which one it was , but yeah , similar to kind of one of those structures . But josh I , um , thanks for kind of telling that story . Um , I , I wanted to dig a little bit into that transition . I mean you went from finance to artist and kind of . When I started out in my firm I it's funny because I proposed to my wife and that same month I think , I said I'm going to quit my job and start my own firm , and so it was kind of a big transition . At least I was coming from those .

Speaker 3 9:38

I waited for her to say yes , and then I was like , oh , by the way .

Speaker 2 9:41

Oh , by the way , I'm quitting my job and so I mean she was super supportive and helped me , you know , at least in those first couple years on making that big transition , because I didn't . It was , I mean , a big different revenue switch . For myself At least . I was kind of coming from within the same industry but going from two completely different industries . I know you're married as

Evolving Business Through Brand Design

Speaker 2 10:01

well . Tell us a little bit what that was like and being able to kind of pursue your passion .

Speaker 4 10:07

Yeah , that was a decision that we her and I had to make together . I was 100% all for it , but I needed almost like her permission , just because I knew I was leaving a job that paid pretty well , so can we rely on her income ? Right ? And luckily enough , we were in a very fortunate position to where it . If it was any other time , it probably would have been like a high risk situation , but at that time it was like low to medium risk level and you know she's she's like just go for it . You know , not many people have the opportunity to turn a passion into a job . And so , you know , I was like let's do it for a year and see where things go . And it's been over two years now and it just , it continues to grow . And so I'm lucky . Uh , it's , it's taken off , it's it's provided , but more importantly , it's it's given me the ability to just to create every day .

Speaker 4 11:04

I never thought that would be a full-time job , being able to create , like I before , when , when I was an advisor , I usually I would have to do something , whether it was , like you know , draw , or even another hobby of mine at the time was woodworking . I would have to do some of that before I went to work , just to kind of I guess you can say like fill my soul a little bit . That's just how I'm wired , like I have to do something small , whether it's like workout , art or woodwork , and it would kind of like jumpstart me right . But now I get to jumpstart myself with my actual job , so it's pretty awesome .

Speaker 1 11:40

So did you set ? I mean I like that you put this metric right of , hey , let's try it for a year . Did you have goals in between that year where you're like , all right , I'm going to check in and if I'm not at this goal , like do I have to let ? Did you also ? Did you keep your wife kind of up to date with that ? Did she want to know how are we doing here or what ?

Speaker 4 11:59

Yeah , we had biweekly meetings showing her profit and loss reports . I'm just kidding , no , no , no , we didn't really have much like that at all . It was there . There was like no tangible metrics . Nothing really quantitative is more qualitative , and it was just kind of like your like , feel like , just do a , I share with her everything . So she , she knows everything that's happened in the business . I mean , hell , like , I send her like my branding stuff that I , before I share to clients just to make sure that it looks good . Right , that is a good fit . So she knows the ins and outs of my business . She's seen everything .

Speaker 4 12:40

So when it came to that first year and your question is like , was there like certain metrics that you needed to hit to make sure that it's worth it ? There really wasn't . It was just like you know the non-tangible , like it's this great ? Like , am I happy ? Am I making a decent amount of money ? Um , what can this lead in ? This evolve into something further ?

Speaker 4 13:07

And let me tell you like it , the answers were yes , but throughout the first year maybe the first like 14 , 15 months there'd be times where my wife and I would be driving somewhere and I would just turn off the radio and I would just vent and it was like my way of problem solving . So there were , there were times where I was making art , I was making illustrations and and this is before I found branding . But I was like like I don't know what my product really is , like I , I don't know what my product really is , I don't know what it is , I don't know what that one thing is yet and I said I know it's coming , but I like what I do , I just don't know . It got to the point where I was like , are any of my skill sets truly marketable ? And so , yeah , it was like a whirlwind of thoughts and there's an's a , there's an advisor with a uh , his name's eric strokes out of boston , and he's the first guy that actually gave me the opportunity for branding .

Speaker 4 14:08

He reached out to me and said do you do branding ? I said nope , but at the time I I started to uh get really , really familiar with adobe programs illustrator and Photoshop , which are really the two primary programs you use to create brandings and so I was pretty familiar with it at the time and he gave me a shot and it was almost like it was like a sleeping beast , you know like I had no idea that , like that would be a love vine until I did it , and now I can't get enough of it . That's cool .

Speaker 3 14:44

I was going to say . I think we're in a similar world too . As comprehensive financial planners . You just wonder . We do a little bit of everything and it's like what is that thing that we do for people ? Obviously it's retirement planning and education planning and goal setting and all that kind of stuff . But I think there's a lot of parallels there with what is it that we do for people and trying to explain that . And so in your experience , was it just kind of working through it and to kind of figure out what it is ? And have you even figured it out at this point ?

Speaker 4 15:23

that's a good question . Yeah , I , I would . I always tell people that my , my products are evolving , like they have to , right they can . I can never be stagnant , otherwise that's when the business will fail , right . So you do have to truly evolve .

Speaker 4 15:31

Like you know you , you have to add on something , whether it's like for me personally , whether it's like getting more into uh , motion design or animation design , or maybe it's just it's simply just like learning uh more about graphic design , brand design , that that's going to help you grow . And , man , there's there's times where I'm still trying to figure it out . Uh , there's times where I'm I'm in the middle of a brand uh identity design project and I'm just like I was , like I don't know how I'm doing this like sometimes , like you just get into , not like a burnout , but a creative rut and you're just trying to get yourself out of it . So you got to take a step back . You got a good you know really just become bored and then go with it , and I feel like now I'm going like in circles around this conversation . Ask that question one more time .

Speaker 3 16:20

It was , you know , asking have you figured out , like , what it is that you provide as a service or as a product or whatever ? You know , I think , because we related to our industry where we do everything and retirement planning , tax planning , all this planning , but what is it at the end of the day , what is the client getting out of all these number of things that we do ? You know what ? What are they getting out of it ?

Speaker 4 16:44

Yes , thank you for repeating that . The answer is yes , I have figured it out through . Through brand design it's . You know I'm not promising them a . You know she's returned on investment or anything like that , you know , not guaranteeing them anything . But what I am telling them is that you have a business issue and we're going to solve that with creativity , because brand design , graphic design , it's not so much about art , it's more about communication , and so understanding the firm's role , understanding their beginning of the origin , understanding their product services and who their target audience is , and how to communicate all of that visually , is going to help them solve their business issues . So just look at a nutshell Brand design is trying to solve issues with creativity

Elevating Branding Beyond Logos

Speaker 4 17:34

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Speaker 1 17:34

I love that you're saying it and it's communication , right ? I remember when I was working with a graphic designer before and he's like , show me some things that you're saying it and it's communication , right . I ? I remember when I was working with a graphic designer before and I he's like , show me some things that you really like . And so I like went online and I was like I really like the simplicity of this and this . And he like just blew my mind with just such an easy basic concept . But I was like , see these things . Like when you see it , you know what you're seeing and everything . And he he's like Amazon , there's an A with an arrow and now you can just do the arrow . And he's like , yeah , it's a great design , but really it's that you've seen it everywhere , every day , all the time Repetitive .

Speaker 1 18:11

It wasn't that the design itself was so memorable , it's that they communicate . The design says , hey , we sell anything from A to Z . It's a smile . And now it's about communicating . We're here , we're here , we're here , we're here , use us . And um , oh . So I thought it was just . You know , the subliminal messaging in the logo itself is what was getting through . He's like no , that's the creativity and now it's your job to get it in front of people how do you get people to figure out who they are and what they're trying to portray ?

Speaker 3 18:44

Because I would imagine that's probably half the battle is it's just getting an advisor to describe their business and you being able to put imagery around . That Is that part of your process is kind of helping people discover who and what they are .

Speaker 4 18:59

Yeah , I would say , obviously I work with a lot of family planners and so you have to . They all they're pretty similar , right , and that's perfectly fine . What we then do is , like , you know , one of the first things we do now is have them fill out this questionnaire and it's just for us to better understand and they answered all these questions is you know their ? What was their brand values or trace like ? How do they want to be represented ? Uh , what their target audience is , and so we , we get all that information first , and then we hop on an hour-long call and I call it my brand strategy call .

Speaker 4 19:37

And that's where I dig a little bit deeper in , because I need to , truly I need to find you know their why right , similar to what you guys do with your clients . You know it's just , you know your clients are there to make money , but there's a reason why right . And when you figure out those whys , you can kind of like break through that wall and and really like make make the right advice , rationale , and same same with with branding . Now we go through that process and it kind of opens up the conversation . It opens up the pages of the books that they're writing for , you know , for their future , but also understanding their present and their past is going to be just as important , if not more important . So you know , through that strategy , I don't want them to cry or anything like that , but I truly want to understand why they have this firm . What truly makes them different ? They can have the same products and services , but there's something about them that will make them different from everyone else , and that's what we need to figure out .

Speaker 2 20:44

Yep , I'll say I went through that process and I just want to comment , say one thing I thought was super cool is that I felt that when we were , you were helping me design my logo , that you your enthusiasm for the design a logo , and I just felt that , like you were more excited than I wasn't and and so that was pretty cool , being able to work with you and and um , go from kind of just understanding what my values and my why and what , what kind of direction I was trying to take the logo , because I had no idea what it might look like . I've I've been to in the past , I've worked with like fiverr and upwork , and all those designs that have come back have been like pretty bad but , um , like the one that you just threw out at the first , like you hit it , hit it straight on and then just a couple of design revisions and edits and they look great and you felt Jared like that was because he was tapping into , he knew you .

Speaker 1 21:35

As opposed to he's concentrating on the logo , he's concentrating on what Jared has told me about him .

Speaker 2 21:40

Maybe it's just because he's a really good designer , but I was kind of in the beginning I was like , well , what does this have to do to relate to my logo ? But as we kind of had more conversations and did a design call and I think it's really interesting because all your designs are so simple . But everyone and I've seen you there's so many advisors in the industry that have used your branding and you can just see these little subtle things that relate to their brand and it's pretty cool .

Speaker 1 22:07

Is it how he puts Josh right across the top in big , bold letters ? Oh , this must have been done by Josh . That'll do it .

Speaker 4 22:14

Yeah , now my face is just like in a corner . Josh , are you Banksy ? I wish I was , that'd be dope .

Speaker 1 22:24

That's something Banksy would answer , yeah .

Speaker 4 22:27

I don't think Banksy is one person . I think it's a group of people .

Speaker 1 22:30

Oh okay , kind of like the mentalist going here . Well , I'm curious . One of the things I think of with branding , as we're talking about about this . You think of logos , right , but then also , what do you think of like slogans and stuff ? Is that an important component for people to think through as well ? Because I think of like have it your way , just do it , you're in good hands . Like , is that something that should accommodate a logo if somebody's thinking about going into branding , or is it like now those are yeah , yeah , absolutely you're .

Speaker 4 23:01

I mean you're , you're spot on there . A logo is really just a piece of salami on the charcuterie board , right , that's , that's all it is like . It's , yes , it is front facing , it's , you know , the front office of your business . People aren't going to see it , but realistically , a brand is are the senses of your , you know your business . It's like what people can either smell , touch , feel . So when you , when you think of you know like McDonald's , you know , when you think , when you see you know the , the M , the golden arches , you can almost like smell that disgusting you know restaurant inside of it . But but also like you think about your childhood , right , you always went to mcdonald's , whether it's like after practice or with your friends , and hang out . It's that's what the brand is , right , it's not just the golden arches , this is what is your memories that you get from it .

Speaker 4 23:55

So when , when people ask me if I just create a logo for them , the answer is no , that'd be a disservice to you and me and to your clients , because it wouldn't make the full brand . A brand has to have the touch , the feel , the smell . I guess if you're working virtually , there's that smell , but that's how you feel , right , like you want . You want your clients to feel really good about your brand whenever they see , like your email , whenever they see your logo come across their page or something like that , whenever they hop onto your website . Right , I think the only , I think the only logo or businesses that it probably doesn't help is dead sisters . You know , whenever I see a dead history logo , I'm like I don't want to see you in six months , like I don't have a good feeling visiting you .

Speaker 4 24:45

But no , just going back to like To Jared's logo , you know we wanted that multi-generational feeling . We wanted that authentic well , I wouldn't say too authentic Japanese look Like . We didn't go with like the you know the color red for Japan . We went with like more like a hunter green , but at the same time we have kind of like a rising sun sort of uh logo for him and it's really just to kind of uh , subtly hint at what the brand is about . But then you go to his website and it has so much more that it has so much more brand elements to help kind of put everything together and make , you know , your clients feel the full impact of the brand . So , yes , so the logo is just really just that one piece of salami on that charcuterie board and that charcuterie board is the actual branding .

Speaker 1 25:40

I love that . I've never heard that analogy of like tapping the five senses . That's something I'll certainly take away from this too . What are we conveying to everybody beyond just the visual component of here's my logo ?

Speaker 3 25:52

yeah , obviously the logo is kind of like comes out at the end , but what about the name of the firm ? Are you helping people come up with a name or do they most of the time come already come in with a name and then you're helping them discover values and goals and purpose and that kind of thing ?

Speaker 4 26:07

yeah , both actually . Uh , you know , we , we had a gentleman out of lexington , kentucky and his , his firm was called lexington wealth management and it worked , you know , for him he's he's had it for over 20 years how did he come ?

Speaker 4 26:22

up with that . Yeah , exactly right , it's as simple as straight to the point . Yeah , uh , with with seo , it probably worked really well for local clients . But here's the thing like his clients weren't just local , like majority of his clients were nationwide and his clients were directly in medical sales , so his colors , his website , his name , it didn't match . And so during our first call I knew right away that he didn't have to change the business name , but he at least can have the DBA . And throughout the conversation I didn't want to just say you're going to have to change your name , I wanted him to make that decision . And then halfway through the call he just pauses and he says I'm going to have to change my name , aren't I ? And I was like that would be a really , really , really good idea , and so we wanted it to have more of a medical feel to it . We wanted people , as soon as they see it , as soon as they see the name , as soon as they see the brand , the colors , the logo , the website , that they can associate it with the medical field . And so we simply just changed it to Pulse Wealth instead of Lexington Wealth Management . Yeah , and because more than likely , he had a bunch of clients that maybe were referred to him through . You know his clients that are in the medical field , it's all of that is at Lexington Wealth Management and this guy , let's say , for instance , like this guy out of California he's in medical sales and he's heard great things about David over at Lexington Health Management , he goes to his website and he's like , oh , I think this guy only helps out people in Kentucky . You know , right there he probably missed out on a bunch of clients . So we made that switch for him and it was huge . We're actually working on a brand .

Speaker 4 28:08

Right now I can't really say what they are , but this one was more about the evolution of the firm . They had a name for 30 years and now it's growing and now it's not so much about that person's name , right , it's more about the firm , the group . A lot of people go with their last name , which is great , but honestly , that's not really changeable , it's not transferable , really , unless you're Carson . Well , that's a little different , but nowadays people want it to be transferable , you know . So they choose to go into a non-name firm . So , yeah , we do our best , we go through .

Speaker 4 28:49

I actually specifically read two books about name design or naming identity to really help figure out exactly like what it should be changed to . The one thing you don't want to do if you are considering changing the name of your business and you're thinking about merging like two words together , which is a strategy make sure that it doesn't sound like a pharmaceutical company or a drug , because I think that's what they all do . Like Sky Risney , like what the hell is that ? That sounds ridiculous . But yeah , if you ever think like this name sounds great but it might sound too crazy , just think of it as a drug that can cure COVID , and if it sounds like it , then it's not a good name .

Speaker 1 29:34

Well , I think it goes back to , like you said , too right , Use your resources too . Like you go to your wife and somebody outside of the industry , somebody , and she'll probably be like what that doesn't ? I don't even know what that is , but the Pulse Wealth , I mean , that was so cool , Even when you said that , because Lexington didn't give me anything

Client Feedback and Logo Design Stories

Speaker 1 29:52

. The moment you said Pulse Wealth , imagery came to me right . So not only is it good for him , but also I bet you as a creative , you're just like oh , I can do so much with Pulse Wealth .

Speaker 4 30:04

Yeah , it's good too . And when he was going through that transition of the names , I told him hey , share it with your family , share it with your colleagues , share it with your top clients , the clients that you actually interact with , that you would consider friends . Those are the ones that can really give you the best answer , because those are the ones you want to attract , right ? So share with them . And I tell all my clients that when I before , like I do a logo concept presentation , and this presentation I got it down to about like 20 minutes now , but the presentation is kind of highlighting our discussion , the brand values , the traits , the mood board that we created together , how all of that is inspiring us to create these logo concepts . And then I show the logo concepts in black and white first , and the reason why I show it in black and white is so that they can , so that they're not influenced by the colors , they can see the versatility , the timelessness of the logos . And then we show the colors . Then we show it in the colors and then we show the logos in . We show it in the colors and then we show the logos in real life applications , uh , and mock-ups like business cards , uh , on a website , on a folder , on , you know , clothing , and that's to make sure that our clients we don't want them to try to imagine it for themselves . We want to , you know , we want to make sure that we show them what it can be and not to have them imagine what it can be . But throughout the whole process it's really storytelling .

Speaker 4 31:39

And then , at the very end , the next step , I always tell them to take a couple of days to think about it , print it off , attach it to your walls . Just take it up to your walls , walk by it , right , kind of like what you said about amazon . You're always constantly seeing it . Maybe you don't love it at first , but it'll grow on you , right , it could grow on you . But I haven't heard anyone say like I absolutely hate this little concept , luckily . But usually they're trying to figure out which one to go with this . So I'm like you know , just like , keep walking by it , like you know , print this off , attach it , share it with your friends , family , talk to them about it and kind of put yourself in a position to where , like , can you see yourself with this logo for the next decade or two , you know ?

Speaker 4 32:20

yeah and going through that is a uh . It's a strenuous process for them but it's for the better . It sucks for me because typically that's like two to three days with like they're communication for them and I'm like , do they like it ? Like ? Do they hate it ? Like what's going on ? Like there was .

Speaker 4 32:38

There was one time I just did the brain uh , rebranding for vert asset management . Uh , we didn't do the , we didn't do the website , but we did the logos and it was awesome . Like I sent them three concepts and you know they like I sent in like a loom video , set them the pdf of all the slides and everything . And I always ask like , hey , take some time , but like , can you give me like just like , you know , email me back or slap me back like just like , a first impression , like , do you like it ? Like ? It's just like , are we on like the right starting point ?

Speaker 4 33:13

I didn't hear back from them for like a week and I'm and I'm like , oh , they hate it , they absolutely hate all three . Then I was like hey , I got another concept that I can show them . This is pretty cool . And then one day , like I sent it to them on friday and that very next fr Friday , the wife calls me and she's like we love this one concept , like we share with so many friends , family and I .

Speaker 4 33:37

I apologize , because I thought we messaged you but we didn't press enter and I didn't press send and I'm like , oh shit , like I thought you hated it this whole time and now they , they loved it , and that that's happened twice actually . So it's always like a strenuous process , like just having to wait for their feedback , and I'm like , man , I really hope they like it , I really hope they love it . But there's times where I'm like , after not hearing anything for two days , I'm like , ah , they hate it , that's you know shit . Like throw it out the window and they come back . They're like we love it . We just took some time and spoke to everyone and kind of like what you suggested , and I'm like oh yeah .

Speaker 2 34:15

Well , Josh , if he does any design work for you guys , leave him hanging for a week and he'll come up with a fourth concept for you .

Speaker 1 34:23

Yeah , exactly .

Speaker 2 34:24

Exactly . Well , I kind of wanted to shift gears a little bit . Your story is so fascinating I wanted to just get back into a little bit

Navigating Career Transitions and Entrepreneurship

Speaker 2 34:31

. I'm sure we have a bunch of listeners here who have maybe thought about starting their own business , have a side hustle , they're looking to take full time and want to kind of just dive into what was going through your head in that process and if you have any advice or tips that would either push people to make that move or shy away from going and branching off from a good full-time paying job , yeah , and that's a good question .

Speaker 4 34:57

If they're just starting out , obviously they don't have the biggest budget and I completely understand that . I mean you can absolutely go the Fiverr 99 design route . Actually , if you're going for a logo , 99 design would work short-term . Fiverr would not work at all . But I would say , if you're trying to create a brand , don't create it based on how you see it . Create it on , create it based on how the world will see it . You're creating this not for you , but for your clients . So , even though you may think something looks cool , really look at it from the perspective of your target audience and make it about that . If you ask yourself does this resonate with my target audience after every decision you make about your brand , and the answer is yes , then you'll have a great brand because it'll attract the people that you want to attract . If you're doing it just for yourself , because it looks cool , because you saw someone do something very similar , then the color looks cool . That's great . You just created a brand that you think is cool , but you didn't create a brand for your clients . So that's one thing I would say , and same thing with colors .

Speaker 4 36:07

Color plays a huge role . Our brain will recognize and acknowledge color , first on any brand , and then you will think about the shapes , the different uh , you know elements that they , that you see , and then you'll think about the text , right , what they say , like when , like , for instance , uh , coca-cola yeah , I just said it you guys thought of red , right , that was the first thing you guys saw . Then you saw probably the c , maybe the polar bear , who knows . But then I mean , can you think about what the slogan is ? Actually , I have no idea what the slogan is , but you know , that's that's my point , right , you want to , you want to see it from you . You want to create a brand on based on how the world sees you , right , not how you see your brand . So , so , that's , I would say that's it . If you want to ask more , if you want me to elaborate more , ask another question about that .

Speaker 1 36:59

Well , I think that's interesting because that parallels . So before this I was a professional musician , right , and one of the things that they said was , if you write a song and you go out and you pitch it and everyone's like I love this country song , and you're like it's not country , this is a pop song . And you go to the next person like , dude , that country song is really good . You're like it's not country , they said , stop fighting it . People are telling you it's a country song . Brandon has a country song , run with it , right , or if not , you've got some work to do . If you want it to be a pop song , stop fighting it and turn it into a pop song . But it was really cool to be like hey , sometimes just let the world decide what it is . And you're like , oh , okay , be amicable or more more malleable is probably a better word to go in that direction .

Speaker 2 37:44

So it sounds similar in that way I just wanted to go ahead and comment and say like it's so funny that josh went from finance to art and then jay kind of went the opposite direction . But in thinking of that it's pretty cool because his firm , his name , is high note and I'm sure there could be things that you could use to go off of that name yes , yeah .

Speaker 1 38:06

Well . So , josh , I'm curious when , kind of like on more of the personal side , so not as much as in branding but you made that jump right from you're you're working for a job . You're working a job that probably paying pretty well , uh , probably has a career path ahead , and you made this jump . What was it like internally , that you're like not feeling fulfilled , that made you go ? And then you took the jump , like what was it that you recognized inside ?

Speaker 4 38:39

oh yeah , it was uh . Well , I was working in a private office and it was not with tiaa , it was with prudential , and I really wanted to focus on financial planning . But the three other guys that were in the office , they're top producers in that company and so they were making a lot of money , which is very attractive . You know , you're like okay , like I can make a lot of money like them , like I could be very well off very quickly if I sell like them , if I become top producers like them , and they have the strategy and the roadmap to do it . But I did not feel like selling life insurance like them , and they have the strategy and the roadmap to do it , but I did not feel like selling life insurance like them and I really wanted to get into financial planning . So there was like a month or two where I would .

Speaker 4 39:22

I was like going home with like this moral dilemma on what to do Do I sell like them or do I go with like my gut and telling me that I should do financial planning and not make as much money as them . And so when , when I found FinArt , it was like I thought it was like a fork in the road , like I had to go left or right and FinArt was like oh , just jump straight up , you know , and I feel like , oh , easy . So making that decision wasn't as hard as you think , because it was a career pivot that I didn't think that was there until it was . So , yeah , I had this more dilemma and I was like oh , now I can create art and I can draw sick figures instead .

Speaker 1 40:08

So if you had looked at it because you said you and your wife kind of sat down , you said , hey , we got of sat down . You said , hey , we gotta assess the risk , right . I mean because that's a reality as well I'm curious if you're willing to go down this path with me . If it had been like , okay , my wife covers half of it or three quarters of it , and now I need to subsidize , would you have ? What would you have done ? Would you have gone ahead and been like , okay , just give me a year to do this , we might be hurting for a year . Would you have , what would you have done ? Would you have gone ahead and been like , okay , just give me a year to do this , we might be hurting for a year . Or would you have been like , all right , I'm going to Uber and sell IULs to Jared Tanimoto While I'm making the jump ?

Speaker 4 40:41

Yeah , no , I would have sold baby oil instead , but no , I . So the funny thing is , like , all my registrations and designations , I actually moved it over to a core planning and I joined them . Right at the same time I started FinArt and the owner's name is Guy Penn really cool guy , no pun intended . But he , you know , I told him about FinArt and he was like 100% all about it and he was just like hey , you can keep your registrations here , you don't have to pay any fees , anything like that . Just , you know , like , and I have not given them a dime , like not even a penny .

Speaker 4 41:20

But if the opportunity presented themselves to where I wanted to go back into financial planning , I had an RIA that I could , you know , use . So there was . So the first six months I kind of had like my , you know , I had like what's this saying ? Like I had like my foot still in the whole financial planning world . Uh , when I was starting fit art , just because I wasn't 100 sure , and so my wife knew that and everything . And then it just I , I got so busy with making art and making illustrations that I had zero time for financial planning and so I knew like , I was like , okay , it's making decent money and my wife was perfectly fine with that . We still don't have a lot of bills , so it was easy to cover any expenses , right . So the question was is like , okay , if I want to make this bigger , how can I do that ? Like , are there going to be like different tiers within the business to to to make more money , to evolve right ? And eventually it did it . Like I and jerry can tell you , I messed around like so many different products , like I started , like I had like a subscription service that lasted three months before I realized that it wasn't the right move to make and it was not as beneficial as I thought it would be for my clients , just because there was a movement in the design world where everybody tried to productize the service .

Speaker 4 42:48

They were trying to make subscriptions and it works out for some people , but for for myself , I liked having the conversation with my clients on knowing what I'm designing and why I'm designing it , and the subscription service that I had was called fin design .

Speaker 4 43:03

There was no discussion , there was only a request by the clients and I would create it . But I realized very quickly , like having those conversations and trying to make , trying to narrow down on what they're trying to accomplish is is really like the best best fit for me . So that's why , when I talk to my clients now about brand design , I I always make sure that they understand this is a collaborative effort , like we . We collaborate on the idea and I keep you in the loop and I and I don't ghost you , because I need you to understand and I need to understand from your mind what you're trying to achieve here too . So we're going to have like multiple discussions , uh on , on figuring this , this out , so that when I do present their branding , it is exactly what they not what they imagined , but what they felt you know that they wanted to have .

Speaker 1 43:55

So yeah , yeah , we heard a lot of self-awareness in , just in .

Speaker 1 44:00

What you're saying is kind of like what you weren't hearing or what wasn't feeling good . Or you're like I don't really want to be selling this , like , yes , there's this wealth that's potentially at the end of the line and making good money , but you're like I wouldn't feel fulfilled . And then when you're talking about like I'm sitting here working with people but I'm not connecting with them , I'm just like they're just asking me to do this and then I'm doing it , you're like I'm so that self-awareness seems to be like a real guidance for you and I think that is , uh , it's interesting because I think a lot of people and the other thing that , sorry , a lot of people have that . It's like kind of and if you don't have it yet , you know , sit with it . We had a previous guest on Colin Coe and he really talked about sitting with like ask yourself the question and then just kind of be quiet for a second and see what comes of that , and that will provide you some guidance provide you some guidance .

Speaker 4 44:54

I would even say , uh , there's a , there's a book that I read called the happening , and it was .

Speaker 4 44:57

I think it's called the habit or the having I forgot what it's called , but it was really good .

Speaker 4 45:00

But like the the author was talking about , well , she was taught . Like you , you have like a red light and a green light . You know , and it's really your gut instincts and I think , uh , I like the , you know , asking the question and sitting with it for a little bit to figure

Financial Advisor Turned Artistic Designer

Speaker 4 45:16

it out . But I would , I would try to one-up that by saying , like , when you make a purchase , when you make a decision , you instinctively , like within a split second , have a green , green light or a red light , and you can , you know if it's a good decision or a bad decision right away , like within a split second , and sometimes , thinking about it later on , you start to weigh the pros and cons and sometimes you may even make a reason on why it's a good red light , little things like that , and I mean there's all sorts of different situations , but , yeah , I try to be very , very self-aware and ask myself if this is like a green light or a red light situation what my mind automatically goes to right .

Speaker 1 46:15

So my , my financial background is behavioral finance , and so I think immediately it's like yeah , that is a really good idea for people , because humans in general are loss averse , right , we feel more pain from something we lose than we feel good about a game , right , and so we are so much more scared of losing something . So , having that contingency plan of going look , I'm risking a possible loss and it's going to hurt , so I can hedge against that by hey , babe , worst case scenario , I'll go back . I've got this RIA who says I can use them , and then it almost frees you up to go get it and you never have to use that contingency plan . But I know , as financial planners , we have to do that as well . Right , hey , this is what we're gonna do . But life happens and if it does , here's something that we can do . You're still gonna be okay . And all of a sudden , everyone's like , oh , okay , and they're more willing to go for the initial goal because of that .

Speaker 4 47:12

Yep , 100 yeah , there was uh having that back and forth , having that foot in the door once it in , once it out . I think it was like after like six months , and then I and then around six months I was like I'm 100 in dinner , like 100 , and then that's when I think that evolution like came . Like there's always like these uh little aha moments that you have throughout your journey , and I just continue to have these aha moments and it just made more sense and so , yeah , I'm glad I did make that decision . Yeah , that's cool , it's great .

Speaker 3 47:45

An interesting world that you're in as a former financial advisor now in this FinArt space and I think because of that you probably run your business that way . But it just . I think we've seen so many parallels between our world and your world and how we're all to accomplish and not selling you products in a vacuum , you know , whether it's insurance or investments by themselves or any other planning services . It's like you can't truly give advice and recommendations for someone unless you put in that front end work of what are you trying to accomplish , what's important to you . You know , what do you want out of life , what do you want to do with your money , and and I think that's that's cool , that you do that in your practice and maybe it's something you just brought over from being a financial advisor and understanding you need to know people before you give them advice . But it's just , it's it's unique how you've you've done that and I don't know if that's common in your world or not , but I think it's important for people to know that .

Speaker 4 48:52

I think it's slim . Yeah , I definitely learned all those great traits from being an advisor Because , honestly , you can be a great designer , but if you don't know how to sell yourself or how to market yourself , then you're not going to create any business , right ? It doesn't matter how good you are , but you also have to know how to understand your clients are . But you also have to know how to understand your clients . And I did gain that sort of questionnaire from being an advisor , right . The questions I ask you know now are very similar to the questions that I was asking when I was an advisor , right , because you're trying to always find that why behind the why . So it was very easy to kind of transfer that into this role , and I mean , I don't use the same value proposition or anything like that . But yeah , I would say not many designers really know how to market themselves or sell themselves , but that's just something that you learn over time too .

Speaker 2 49:48

Thank you . I'm super jealous because , as a planner , I love my job , but I don't go and do financial plans in my spare time like artists do in their spare time . No , I think it's really cool . Before we jump off , we always ask one question about wealth podcast being for the wealth of it , and so I guess I just want to get your take on what your definition of wealth and what it means to you .

Speaker 4 50:14

Yeah , wealth . My definition for wealth is , it's just I don't want to say , let me think about that for a second . I had a different answer , but now it's now it's changed it's really like having an abundance of time . Time and creativity I think is is how I , I would define well , and when I ? When I mean time and creativity , I guess it's more about time having an abundance of time , the time to do what you truly love to do , to be around people that you truly love to be with . That really feels fills your heart . So if you have wealth , uh , I mean if you have abundance of so , if you have wealth , I mean if you have abundance of time , then you have wealth , and so that's how I would define it .

Speaker 1 50:57

Love that . That's really cool . Yes , well , I have one follow-up question Tonight . By the time this airs it'll probably be over , but tonight is the Yankees versus the Royals . The Yankees can close it out tonight , and I know Nebraskans , you know . They're big Yankees fans as far as I know .

Speaker 4 51:20

I mean I don't really watch baseball , so I mean I don't know anybody on the Royals . I know Aaron Judge on the Yankees Brandon . Exactly , Exactly so I guess I'll go for the Yankees Brandon . Exactly , Exactly so I guess I'll go for the .

Speaker 1 51:34

Yankees , all right .

Speaker 4 51:35

I mean . But I will say I think Nebraska they have a lot of , they have some oils , but believe it or not , I think the biggest MLB presence here is probably the Cubs .

Speaker 1 51:46

No , really Okay .

Speaker 4 51:47

Really .

Speaker 1 51:47

I can respect that . I can respect that . Well , you passed the test . We will go ahead and air this uh this show .

Speaker 4 51:56

So I'm talking about I . I had a great time with you guys great questions , by the way , and you guys made it fun , so I appreciate that now .

Speaker 2 52:05

Thank you for joining us . Um , before we sign off , how can people find you contact you ? Um , we'll be sure to post everything in the show notes , but if you want to just give a quick second , yeah , they can .

Speaker 4 52:16

You can find me on Twitter , linkedin . You can search for FitArt and I should pop up there easily . Or the Thin Artist . My website is also thethinartistcom . It has there . It has some of my work , case studies , how to contact me as well .

Speaker 2 52:34

Awesome . Thank you for joining us . Glad to have you . Thank you , thanks , josh .

Speaker 5 52:39

The views depicted in this material are for information purposes only and are not necessarily those of Cetra Advisor Networks , high Note Financial or Sidae Wealth . They should not be considered specific advice or recommendations for any individual . Neither Cetra Advisor Networks , high Note Financial or Sidae Wealth nor any of its representatives may give legal or tax advice . Jay Bocalu is an investment advisor representative offering advisory services through High Note Financial LLC . Jared Tanimoto is an investment advisor representative offering advisory services through Sidae Wealth Partners LLC . Brett Makowski is an investment advisor representative and registered representative offering advisory services and securities through Zotera Advisor Networks LLC . Member FINRA SEPC , a broker dealer and registered investment advisor . Thm Wealth Management is located at 102 South Goliad Street , suite 103 , rockwall , texas 75087 .